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bm3719 2 days ago [-]
Israel has been at this for awhile. One problem with engaging an enemy is that you enter an interplay, a dialectic if you will, with them. As you shape them, so may they do the same to you. Certainly war has shaped Israeli society, and being able to accommodate the nature of their enemy has been not just something that would happen, but also a necessity of survival. Note that this also works in the other direction. By now, their enemy cannot be pure savage and them pure civilization, for this dialectic is a violent progression towards a (perhaps distant) barycenter.
So, those of us who look upon Isreal in their current state in moral arbitration should consider keeping this in mind. Their current state of being is not simply innate to themselves, rather some kind of dialectic sublation of them and the enemy. Even if you don't care much about this conflict, it's a model worth considering, since the rest of us here in the West also have a history of voluntarily entering into this cultural exchange of sorts with various middle eastern societies. In some ways, the barrier remains for us, hence our hapless bumbling in the region. Those misunderstandings result in expensive mistakes, of course, but perhaps it's better than full sublation, a violent dance of mutual becoming.
sbayg 2 days ago [-]
Spousal abuse is often explained in similar fashion, if a bit less eloquently, by the abuser.
spwa4 2 days ago [-]
[flagged]
RobMurray 2 days ago [-]
Yeah, all Israel ever wanted was peace. That's why they stole land that was already populated, and continue to take more and more. Bomb women and children. confiscate baby formula. starve innocent people. destroy their homes and schools. Perfect way to keep peace.
spwa4 1 days ago [-]
I always find it funny that people defend muslim agression by claiming people stole land from them.
Islam is a continuation of the Roman empire. The very foundation of Roman, and islamic economy was conquering lands, enslaving the population and mining the conquests for natural resources.
100% of muslim lands were stolen from others. Every square millimeter. The early muslims were raiders and thieves, people banished from their tribes, their cities. EVERYTHING they ever occupied was stolen. Mecca? Stolen. Damascus? Stolen. Jerusalem? Stolen. Medina? Stolen. Cairo? Stolen. Every last bit of space they ever occupied is conquered, or as you put it: "stolen lands".
When will the stolen lands be given back?
An additional level of humor is added by the obvious fact that land is not what's creating wealth. Hasn't been for centuries. What's creating wealth is people and technology. Excactly what Palestinians and muslims are attempting to chase out. Which means the great reward Palestinians are killing, torturing and dying for ... is poverty. If they win, Palestine will be far worse off than any of the neighboring countries, Palestinians will desperately emigrate and abandon it.
On top of that this is an area of the world where fresh water has to be either designed or imported. Poverty in those areas will not just mean living in squalor, it will mean death.
The best possible thing that could happen to Palestinians is that they comprehensively lose this conflict. In fact, that they lose to the point the cause is entirely lost. For the people living in Gaza and the West bank, that would be by far the best possible outcome. That Palestinians and muslims in general realize that the "fouding myth" of their society is like any other founding myth. A cute story for the children, that really describes an ugly, sordid, inhumane past that nobody, and we mean absolutely nobody, wants to return to.
josefritzishere 2 days ago [-]
This is the same completely obvious trap every previous president has managed to avoid. Bibi has been asking for a US proxy war with Iran since the Regan administration and now he has it. The US is trapped.
karmakurtisaani 2 days ago [-]
But he doesn't know who he's dealing with this time. The master of the deal himself, Donald Trump!
Let me explain: Trump has no issues making a terrible deal with Iran and leaving Israel to fend for itself. He will allow Iran to keep nuclear material and develop the bomb, while selling oil and collecting tolls from Hormuz if he can in some way spin it as a win. He is sick of this war, can't even continue it anyway and is looking for any exit. The art of the deal, baby!
So, those of us who look upon Isreal in their current state in moral arbitration should consider keeping this in mind. Their current state of being is not simply innate to themselves, rather some kind of dialectic sublation of them and the enemy. Even if you don't care much about this conflict, it's a model worth considering, since the rest of us here in the West also have a history of voluntarily entering into this cultural exchange of sorts with various middle eastern societies. In some ways, the barrier remains for us, hence our hapless bumbling in the region. Those misunderstandings result in expensive mistakes, of course, but perhaps it's better than full sublation, a violent dance of mutual becoming.
Islam is a continuation of the Roman empire. The very foundation of Roman, and islamic economy was conquering lands, enslaving the population and mining the conquests for natural resources.
100% of muslim lands were stolen from others. Every square millimeter. The early muslims were raiders and thieves, people banished from their tribes, their cities. EVERYTHING they ever occupied was stolen. Mecca? Stolen. Damascus? Stolen. Jerusalem? Stolen. Medina? Stolen. Cairo? Stolen. Every last bit of space they ever occupied is conquered, or as you put it: "stolen lands".
When will the stolen lands be given back?
An additional level of humor is added by the obvious fact that land is not what's creating wealth. Hasn't been for centuries. What's creating wealth is people and technology. Excactly what Palestinians and muslims are attempting to chase out. Which means the great reward Palestinians are killing, torturing and dying for ... is poverty. If they win, Palestine will be far worse off than any of the neighboring countries, Palestinians will desperately emigrate and abandon it.
On top of that this is an area of the world where fresh water has to be either designed or imported. Poverty in those areas will not just mean living in squalor, it will mean death.
The best possible thing that could happen to Palestinians is that they comprehensively lose this conflict. In fact, that they lose to the point the cause is entirely lost. For the people living in Gaza and the West bank, that would be by far the best possible outcome. That Palestinians and muslims in general realize that the "fouding myth" of their society is like any other founding myth. A cute story for the children, that really describes an ugly, sordid, inhumane past that nobody, and we mean absolutely nobody, wants to return to.
Let me explain: Trump has no issues making a terrible deal with Iran and leaving Israel to fend for itself. He will allow Iran to keep nuclear material and develop the bomb, while selling oil and collecting tolls from Hormuz if he can in some way spin it as a win. He is sick of this war, can't even continue it anyway and is looking for any exit. The art of the deal, baby!